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« The metrosexual tarot | Main | Down, but not out? »

February 10, 2004

Comments

Frank Howley

I agree with you 100%.

phil_in_ny

I can totally relate, as I am both Jewish and Gay as also. Sometimes I get both, sometimes one or the other. The best though, is when people just repect both angles, a rare but most welcomed compliment.

phil_in_ny

omit the "as" from the previous post. Typo..lol.

sean

I really enjoyed reading your account and am so glad you have grown up to be such a well balanced, intelligent individual.

I too where bullied as a child for the same reasons and felt very much alone... I do even today. Still... as Friedrich Nietzsche stated... 'what doesn't kill us... makes us stronger!'

Stay happy..

Sean

pennyjane

hi joe. well, i am an evangelical christian, gay transwoman. am i thrice cursed? nope, as you, i am thrice blessed. believe it or not, when i was little "fag" was the common slur of me. imagine that, i like girls as much or more then any of them and was biologically male. "dyke" would have been more appropritate, but what does truth have to do with any sort of bigotry?

much love and hope, pj

rabbi lars shalom

gay men make GOD SCREAM!!

Listen to a jewish girls soul and you will hear the same!!

joe kort

You mean scream with joy


am sure because susursure.

pennyjane

will we ever learn that conversation...even any form of communication is impossible when it is prefaced by..."you are not acceptable to God."?

a fundamental tenant among both jews and chrisitans is that God is soverign. what self-serving, arrogant and yes....even stupidity it must take to presume to speak for Him.

i personally have to question the credentals of the so-called "rabbi" lars shalom. it seems to me that even a dim-witted teacher would know better then to begin a conversation with such utterances. the "rabbi" seems far more the narcissist then a teacher.

joe, your story is very touching and i think most of us connect with the fundamental truths you share with us. were the "rabbi" to choose to learn and then teach he might connect as well and might even become a better person for the experience.

Evyn Rubin

I liked Joe Kort's story about being gay and Jewish. I found so-called "Rabbi" Lars Shalom's comment rude and distressing, and when I checked out his blog, it was clear, he could not possibly be a real rabbi. Lars loves Jesus & Mary Magdalene and has a strident dispersed focus, so shattered and uncentered and unconcerned with communicating, what is he running from? It is easy to laugh of so-called "Rabbi" Lars, who is so un-shalomic, in spite of his last name.

But homophobia got a victory at the polls, as did the disempowerment of lesbians and gays, diectly or indirectly, whether married or not. So now we need to really take care of ourselves, and eachother. I don't want their victory at the polls to make any inroads into my spirit, already challenged.

Hang in there everybody, connect with the good stuff, and be protected from the bad.

shalom is a process....

Evyn Rubin

pennyjane

God can take even the shrill, offbeat and foul sounds of satan and weave them into the beauty of His concert. He can turn jews, christians, muslims, buddhists and anthiests into loving brothers and sisters: He can turn hate into love and weakness into strength. i firmly believe that He can take this latest loss you speak of, evyn, and turn it into a miraculous victory for all creation.

we may never know when is the time of God but it's always right now. God bless with much love and HOPE. pj

Dan

Jewdiasm says that there is nothing wrong with BEING gay. It's the fact that people do gay things which is a sin. So it is much worse for a straight person to do something gay, as opposed to a gay person doing something gay, because the straight person was held at a higher standard, for not having gay intentions. I don't care what gay people do in the privacy of thier own homes, as long as they do not have gay thoughts about me. Don't feel depresed about what you are, just what you do.

pennyjane

"as long as they do not have gay thoughts about me." i don't know rather to laugh or cry. i sure do hope, though, that you don't have any straight thoughts...(giggle) about me!

much love and hope, pj

pennyjane

that last post was so provocative...i can't stop thinking about it. this person...dan...is sincere and truthful in what he says. it deeply saddens me on one level that a jew cannot recognize unadulterated, unequivical...patent bigotry even when if come out of his own mouth.

has it been that long?

the perverse sickness displayed in that comment about hoping no one has "gay" thoughs about him is devesatating. i laughed at first, thinking that this is so silly as to not be able to take it seriously. but, honest...i think this guy is serious...he actually believes that he would be somehow deminished as a man were another man to find him sexually attractive. that's it folks, that's what it's all about...this egotistical, selfish sense of entitlement, this inability to empathize with another human being because his sexual interests are not like yours.

the hatred of people because they believe in the God of abraham and the laws decended from mt siani. the belief that people of african decent can't have a soul...or at least not a human soul...this is THE sickness of man. this is where evil is bread. yes, it's funny....in the same sense that all rediculose scenes of utter stupidity make us laugh, but...?

hitler was a funny looking guy...ok, yes, surely he must have thought the world of charlie chaplin...his imitation of him was so good...but...20,000,000 dead bodies later, all the humor in him has drained away. "those people," he figured, "they have no right to even think thoughts like i do...they must be exterminated!" not much of a reach dan, not far at all.

God bless with much love and hope, pj

lars shalom

very interesting commments, i'm not particularily anti gay men, but i think you still need to find your soul!!

pennyjane

find one's soul? what the heck is that supposed to mean lars? how are you supposed to know who's soul is lost...what are you...God? why do you lie? of course you are anti gay men! you are anti-gay...period. maybe you should look into your own soul (which isn't lost by the way) and figure out what it is about homosexuality that so frightens you.

i'm sure that if you could confront that fear in yourself your perspective would broaden and you might find something positive to extole...like, maybe, God's love of His world.

homosexuality isn't debatable. rather one recognizes it in himself or not is not relevant to fact as to whether one is or not. one may be homosexual and deny it forever, but they are still homosexual. we've seen cases of people who have denied their jewishness...sometimes out of expedience and sometimes out of necessity, either way...they are still jewish. we've seen people deny their blackness...for the same reasons...they are still black. it is no different with homosexuality.

you really need to re-examine this idea of yours that homosexuality is a choice. if you actually think about it, i mean do a little critical thinking, original thinking, it will become absolutely clear to you that homosexuality is no more a choice then is gender. we are hard wired from birth. it isn't about who one sleeps with. we've seen over and over, for centuries, homosexuals sleeping cross gender. that's an act, something they do, it has nothing to do with who they are...a homosexual man can sleep with women 'till the cows come home...he's still homosexual.

you can bang your head against brick walls all your life, you'll come out of life with no more then a headache...you will not fullfill the life that God gave you. you will be no more then what you practice most...a distraction. if you allow this conflict with your own sexuality to consume you...that's when you are consumed with sexuality, if you keep it in perspective, not allow it to distract you from the pursuit of God's will...then it is no more then what it is...an expression of love...just as sex was originally intended to be.

"God, grant me the serenity to accept those things i cannot change, the courage to change the things i can...and the wisdom to know the difference." if we can get the "wisdom" part down the courage and serentiy will usually follow.

God bless with much love and hope, pj

lars shalom

I am a gay woman, and, yes, I'm god

Sam

According to the tora (the only jewish basis), GAY IS FORBIDENN TO EXIST -- THAT'S ALL.
U CAN SAYING I'M A GAYJEW, BUT IT'S A FACT ACCORDING TO THE JEWISH TRADITION IT'S FORBIDENN.
PS: U CAN FIND SOME FRIEND WITHIN THE REFORMY COMMUNITY (WHERE IS THE SENSE)..

pennyjane

hmmmm....if God forbade the existence of homosexuality then, in my opinion, it wouldn't exist. i think what you mean is that according to the culture God found moses in and according to their understanding of homosexuality God admonished the practice of homosexuality...homosexuality as they understood it in those days.

i think that in the 4000 years or so since moses began putting down His story in the torah much has changed. many have come to a better understanding of homosexuality. what the understanding of it was then is different then what it is now.

through Jesus Christ, the massiah, the living Word of God, we now have the ability to interpret the old laws through new eyes and with new understanding...just another or God's wonderful blessings, another of the many gifts He has given us.

even if one doesn't accept the deity of Jesus, one can hardly suspect His authority as a talmudic teacher. i think even the jews can learn alot from how He applied common sense to the talmud, how He challenged us to apply the laws with God's love and mercy in mind...how He recognized that the "one size fits all" philosophy could be improved upon. just a thought.

much love and hope. pj

asdf

xianity is far more abhorrent to the G-d of Israel than homosexuality, if that helps at all. :)

Evangelist Jaguar Thunderwolf

I am not Jewish; I am a
non-judgmental Christian evangelist.

The term THE AGE OF ENLIGHTENMENT is really a farce.

There was more gay tolerance in Greece, in Japan, in Rome, and in other ancient nations.

God loves gay people as much as he loves those who are straight, bisexual, and asexual.

Gay people are being verbally and physically attacked, and even put to death. And by whom?

By straight people who don't even take a look at their own dirt:

Fornication, abortions, adulteries, and overpopulation the earth.

Every year 10 million innocent children die of starvation because their senseless straight parents can't afford to feed them.

"He who is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone."
- Jesus the Christ

Christ also said that you cannot take a mote (a speck of dust) from your brother's eye when there is a beam (a whole lot more) in your own eye.

What the world needs is a good dose of Divine Love to drive out the spirit of murder.

If this is the age of enlightenment I hate to think what is an AGE OF DARKNESS.

daniel c simerson

im gay and a sephardic,ashkenazi,and ashkenazi-levite jew. i do not say jewish when i refer to myself because to me it implies jew-like not an actuall jew.im also a victim of the cp industry thanks to the man who "adopted"me.he was not a jew. anywhoo i was born gay and soon im gonna guy gay. i see an "evangelical" defending us. to me thats a oxymoron because after my adoption i was placed in an evangelical foster home. and i can tell you from 30 years experience in their many churches they ALL hate gays and anyone else who is different. thats just life. they cannot stop hating and they will not stop hating.nor will anyone else who agrees with them. at least thats how i feel right now. i have yet to see anything contrary.

Moshe

I grew up going through severe Antisemitism. I had swastikas shoved in my face and scratched into my desks. I had death threats. I had people chase me and spit at and on me. I was called "jewboy" and "kike" so many times that I lost count. I also grew up surrounded by words like "fag" and "sissy." My being Jewish was far more damning in a KKK-filled school than my being gay, so that was never as terrifying, but both played into my childhood experience. I still have flashbacks sometimes; when I watched Taking Woodstock, I had a full PTSD style breakdown when I saw "Burn Fag Jew" spray-painted on the side of the family's building, and couldn't function normally for days. Having spent so many years living in the closet trying to convince myself I was straight, I was, and am now still, completely deprived of nearly all human touch. I am still suffering from the effects of the intolerance I lived through my entire childhood.

Thomas Selber

In the spirit of gay, jewish men I thought you might like this..
Just love this clip!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkouvS5sfck

Allyson Block

That was a really moving article. Thanks for sharing.

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