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« Charles W. Socarides, M.D. (1922 - 2005) | Main | How religious conservatives are important to the fight against homophobia »

January 04, 2006

Comments

Ken Mahan

Sorry Joe, I don't agree. As a Christian who happens to be Gay, I am actually offended by all three of your examples. While I do not normally agree with Miller - or read it regularly, I also don't agree with you - but I do read this blog regularly and normally agree.

Dowd very clearly and offensively implies that all gay men do is hangout in bathrooms cruising for sex - very offensive to me. I'd normally add something whitty here, but this is not funny.

The cartoon makes fun of a very serious movie and and the love between two men equating it to making love to a horse.

And finally, Larry David is just offensive - nowhere near funny. I have not seen anything funny come from this man since Jerry went off the air. If his show wasn't filling an airtime requirement of HBOs commitment to being more than a movie network, he would have been on UPN at 3AM 2-years ago - right before the Veg-A-Matic infomercial. I equate him to "Barbra" singing about the birth of Jesus on her Christmas albums - anything for a dollar. Way to sell out the Jews, Babs - maybe you should be wearing a "brown shirt" and arm patch - nope no money to be made there. DO NOT get me wrong, this is not a Jewish-Money slam, it is a Barbra and the Commercialization of Christmas slam. Papa can you pay me?

OH, NO! I just attacked Barbra. Lucky for me I have Jesus. Ah, we all have to keep smiling.

OK, I am a Christian, Gay and a non-Barbra-worshipper... but give me points - I can spell her name correctly.

Joe Perez

Wow... I'm a bit surprised to see the difference of opinion. Thanks for opening my eyes to the diversity of opinion.

Dan Glenn

Yep. I found the horse cartoon pretty offensive. It does equate my love for a man to bestially, which I find offensive.

Though I imagine that if I had an erect penis large enough to satisfy a horse I wouldn't much mind our relationship in the slightest, if he didn't mind my mega pornstar status. Talking horses can give their consent, which is a plus. However, when the talking horse has won the right to vote and pays taxes we'll talk about his civil rights and the possiblity of an open, public relationship between us, until then he should keep his mouth shut.

Stephen

With so few (if any) positive views of homosexuality, when a movie comes along that destroys the myths and stereotypes, I can understand why "jokes" about it, if indeed they are jokes, could easily offend. I do know there is a definite double standard. If, for example, the same three examples you cite had been developed in the hands of the Uber Right, the GBLT groups would come unhinged. "Tasteless," "cruel," "foul," "insensitive," etc. kinds of epithets would have been lobbed without a moment's hesitation. But, because these indecorous "responses" come from the Left, we're supposed to understand that they're entirely humorous, not egregiously vulgar. I believe THIS is Miller's point, and I find it not only compelling, but exposes the double-standards that queers will allow their "allies" to do things that if the same things had been done by their "enemies" would engendered outrage. Personally, I found all the instances you cited utterly tasteless, regardless of the sources, and that these tasteless, even repugnant, "jokes" at our expense anything but humorous.It's not that I don't have a sense of humor, it's that even our "allies" humor wasn't in the slightest bit funny, and I can't excuse these tasteless responses just because they come from the Left.

Joe Perez

Stephen:

Well, I grant that YOU didn't find these examples of humor funny. But plenty of people do, including me. And we don't take offense at supposed insults. Personally, I don't care if the humor is by Maureen Dowd, Larry the Cable Guy, or a funny conservative (can't think of any offhand, can you?), if it hits the right humorous sensitivities.

There may very well be a double-standard of some kind, though I doubt it's simply about liberals and conservatives. Let's face it. Humor is full of double standards. You and I could tell a gay joke about fisting in a gay bar, and both groan at its insensitivities while laughing the whole time. A conservative Baptist preacher using the same joke in a fiery sermon and getting a chorus of laughter from an audience of fundamentalists is likely to be judged by different standards. Simply saying that there might be a double standard isn't really that interesting. Of course there are lots of double standards in humor, because context is everything.

Where some people like yourself see the juxtaposition of two cowboys and two horses and some sort of evil Santorum-like attack on homosexuality as a bestiality equivalent, I think that's hypersensitivity. I think the comic is actually making fun of the thing you think is so wrong. It's humor at the expense of the homophobes, not gays. And I think you and others miss that. Your loss. I'm sure you find many other things funny, and good for you. It's a funny world out there, and people laugh and get offended by different things.

Joe

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