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« About Steve Lopez's "A life thrown into turmoil by Proposition 8" | Main | What, was Jeremiah Wright busy? »

December 15, 2008

Comments

Connie Coyne

Rick Warren is a powerful leader and has brought so many people closer to Christ. These images of Christ are so powerful. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sLkioKFLEE

pennyjane

someone might inform mr warren that 5000 years ago marriage was defined as a man and however many women he could afford to buy...some still see it that way.

everything is always being redefined...everything that lives that is. our challenge is to accept that marriage is already being redefined in our culture and to see that the redefinition is an acent towards God and not a decent towards death.

inclusion is life, exclusion is death.

much love and hope, pj

Beckie

I doubt that Mr. Warren would agree to very much that has to do with equal rights under the law for GLBTQ citizens.
He REFUSED to meet with a small group of gay families from Soulforce whose only motivation was to open dialogue with the Church leadership about gay families being accepted in the church. He refused to meet AFTER he had agreed to meet with them. His actions are not only disheartening, they are RUDE.
In addition, it was reported that Mr. Warren sent out a mailer to all memebers of his congregations to vote YES on Prop 8.
No, I don't believe Mr. Warren would be on board for anything gay rights related. I personally believe he would like the gay community to just go away.

ned

From a purely pragmatic perspective, I think maybe the LGBT community in America needs to consider the options outlined by the beyond marriage movement. Although I'm not American, I have dialogued with Christian conservatives here and read conservative writings on these issues, and I don't really see most of them budging any time soon, mostly because they all come to the discussion with certain starting assumptions that they have no intention of questioning.

pennyjane

hi ned. i really don't think any of us in america are under the illusion that the right wing fantatics are going to change anytime soon. many of us, myself included, are not into watering down marriage, we don't want to destroy it, or degrade it. civil contracts are already available to all who choose to partake of them. i think it far better for the institution of marriage itself for the government to recognize all marriages instead of none. inclusion is life, exclusion is death.

what we wish for is simply that our government recognize the covenant, not contract, we make when we take our loving, committed relationships before God. it's just simply a matter of freedom of religion. if my religious views permit same sex "marriage" then where is the compelling interest in the government supporting the religious views of others to the point of imposing their views on mine?

yes, it's a legal issue. our convenant is already intact morally. we ask only that the "government", not any other religious organaization, give our covenant the same weight as other religious covenants.

if the mormons or the catholics choose not the recognize such "marriages" then i have no problem with that, i'm not either of those things. i'm working within my church, presbyterian usa, for such recognization...without regard for how the government might feel about it. if we, presbyterian usa, choose to accept such marriages...where is the compelling interest in the government telling us we cannot do it?

freedom isn't just about being able to do whatever you want to do, it's about everybody sharing equally in the blessings God has made available to us all.

as a christian i find it very disturbing that some of us feel we have the right to take God's blessings away from others. we are taught that grace belongs to God and God alone and that we should never be jealous of His grace when He bestows it on others. if God blesses me, as He has, with a partner i share love and committment with and that partner happens to be of my own gender, then how is the grace deminished? annie and i have been in a loving, committed, manogomous relationship for nearly thirty years? what man can define or redefine that? it's God's grace and it's here He has chosen to bestow it.

some governments, and people for that matter, might be better advised to try to get themselves on God's side instead of working so hard to create the illusion that He is on their side.

much love and hope, pj

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