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« Understanding Where We Come From, but not Losing Ourselves | Main | Reviews of Rising Up, etc. »

February 06, 2007

Comments

Andrew Strong

Not to be inflammatory, but the first thought I had when viewing your comparison of Paul's enlightenment to the biblically SINFUL (if you are so backward to actually believe that the Bible is true as it was written, not as some have chosen to interpret it through culture today) activities of Mr. Haggard was, "blasphemy." His sin is inexcusable, and aside from God's permeating grace that he extends to all (without finding fault, James 1) he would be destined for hell.
I pray for wisdom and guidance in these matters, yet cannot see how one would hold onto the significance of the Bible, while deriding every significant author that was inspired by God to pen the words that guide our lives. I do wonder, however, how one could justify such a lifestyle.
If you do choose to reply, please do not misuse the Bible by quoting it in support of your position.

John G.

Andrew,

Actually, your comment lacks a coherent idea, at least that I can see. Unless you make a point, I can't really respond.

zeppo

What people need to consider with Mr. Haggard's personal struggle is that maybe he really believes what he preaches and that he struggling to be true to his beliefs. We cannot assume that Mr. Haggard really wants to give in to homosexual urges but is maintaining a facade because he wants to run a church.

John G.

I have no doubt that Mr. Haggard truly and deeply believes that homosexuality is sin. Not only do I try to always recognize the sincerity of the faith of others, no matter how much I personally disagree, I think that Haggard's behavior, ie going to "reparative" therapy, moving to Idaho with his wife, etc., prove that he is truly committed to his homophobic beliefs.

Thats not to say that strong statements of welcome and receptiveness from the queer religious community might not influence Mr. Haggard as he meditates on his entire experience in this "scandal" and his life experience dealing with homosexual desires.

Mal

John, you may be interested in the story of Anthony Venn-Brown, who was an Assemblies of God minister here in Sydney and has been involved with some of our pentecostal mega-churches. His website is http://www.anthonyvennbrown.com/
He also started an online group for gay pentecostal and charismatic Christians which can be found at www.freedom2b.org

This year that group will have a float in the Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras parade, and straight members and even bible college students of one of the largest of our megachurches will be marching with them!

Rick

John,

I couldn't agree with you more. I was appalled at some of the reactions of the gay community when Ted Haggard’s actions were outed.

My first thought was "What an incredible opportunity for GLTB Christians." However, I think deep down I knew that he would choose the path of being right in the eyes of mainstream Christianity rather than being right in the eyes of God.

Oh, I know... someone's going to flame me for presuming what's right in God's eyes. But isn't our commission to spread the Good News to everyone? Ted Haggard's refusal to accept who he is doesn't do anything to spread the Good News. All it does is continue to spread the lie, thereby condemning many to an eternity without God simply because they will never accept a God who will not accept them.

How sad that Ted Haggard has chosen the cure instead of the healing.

Julie

I have been reading this blog for well over a year. I love it. Thank you so much for all the thoughtful views articulated here.

John G.

Mal, thanks for the info, espcially the links! Its great to have some resources for gay pentacostals and charismatics to spread around!

Julie and Rick, thanks so much for your supportive comments!

mikhail

why are christians so obsessed with other peoples sexuality..so obsessed with sex, gender and genitals...really, don’t they worry about real stuff , like poverty, famine, environmental degradation, war and pestilence, the rich gettting richer and the poor getting more destitute.

Why do they get so obessed with homosexuals, claiming it is a threat to the family ..HOW? if your husband runs off with the hussy next door, how can it be the fault of gays/lesbians? How can gays/lesbians be responsible for 50% divorce rate ( incidentally highest divorce are in the bible belt ha ha ).

If your son does drug and your daughter gets laid while on booze - how is that the fault of gays/lesbians. Christians historically sought out scape-goats..they used to blame Jews, then blacks, then gypsies , then women and now since it is no longer fashionable to blame jews or blacks etc, they have to pick on vulnerable minorities like gays and lesbians.

Hitler did not kill 6 million jews in a vacuum. Centuries of marginalization and denigration and demonizing of jews as Jesus killer enable common german citizens to exercise false moral authority in killing jews. In like fashion centuries of demonizing and denigration of homosexuals embolden wicked and otherwise morally bankrupt ‘straight’ bigots to descrimiaate and do violence to gay and lesbian and other sexual minorities .

Furthermore picking on a scape-goat makes christians feel superior and ‘saved’. Denigrating others is easier than exercising love,charity and compassion which is actually the most basic teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Sadly Christians hardly practise the most important commandemt of Jesus ie. Love God then immediately love your neighbour as yourself ( be he/she gay or staight).

It is AMAZING HOW MANY PEOPLE CALL THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS WHEN THEY IN FACT DO NOT PRACTISE THE MOST IMPORTANT COMMANDMENT OF JESUS !!! THEY WOULD RATHER BE HYPOCRITES AND BE LIKE THE PHARASEES OF OLD DUUUH !

mikhail - a child of the Universe

mikhail

Evangelicals and christians in general tend to be so obsessed with sex, gender and genitals to the point that you would think that morality = sex and nothing more. Why I suppose in an evangelical’s mind a heterosexual drug dealer is ‘morally’ superior to a gay philanthropist. Christians in general are guilty of being self righteous and are constantly pretending to ‘love the sinner but hate the sin ‘ as if they can really do that -hah.!!!

May I remind them that the oft repeated mantra of the modern pharasees ‘ love the sinner but not the sin’ is not a quote from Jesus , but a glib semantic invention of some self righteous baptist minister.

Careful scholars of biblical texts who are familiar with the intricacies of ancient oriental languages are wont to not read their bias into isolated quotations.

Jesus had no problems with gays ( natural eunuchs born of the mother’s womb). If you are anti-gay or condemnatory of gay people than you are out of sync with Jesus.

This is what Jesus said:

KJV Matthew 19:12
12. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

No less an authority than Jesus said it is o.k. to be gay, and for you to accept it. Who do you wish to follow - Jesus (of Nazareth) or Jerry (Falwell).

For more detail discussion of this biblical position on the acceptance of gay people by no less an authority than JESUS - THE SON OF GOD , I refer you to this link :

http://www.hiddenmeanings.com/gaysJesus2.htm

Mikhail - a child of the intelligent Universe

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