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« Reconsidering Marriage: What's Our Highest Vision? | Main | The philosophical ground of the struggle for marriage equality »

December 18, 2008



yes...hey all you incesuites and pedaphiles...errr...i meant gay people, well, never mind... same difference. local hero rev rick warren will deliver what will surely be a purpose driven invocation at the innaguration of our first semi-black president. how ironic...wonder if maybe president elect obama really has two thirds and a half of a soul? onward and upward.

God bless us all with much love and hope. pj


Politics is always politics. Don't expect enlightened behavior from politicians and people who engage in politics. Truly I think politics is one of the spheres of human society that is most immersed in falsehood.


"What about somebody from Obama's own Christian denomination, the United Church of Christ? "

Who said that he is still a part of that denomination, HELLO?

Do you not remember when he resigned from is church and threw both his pastors and priest to the wayside.

Many people like myself join churches for its individual components and not always the denomination. Now that Obama has left his church, there is no guarantee that he will remain with the denomination.

I would like to ask where the GLBT community was in defending Jeremiah Wright who was an advocate of gay rights? Did you write any posts about it? Are there any interesting reads in this regards? I have been wondering about this for a while.


i don't know lovetruth, i've slept since the jeremiah wright thing. i do remember quite some discussion of the matter on gaytv with andy humm and ann northup. i think, as ned suggests, i pretty much wrote that matter off as a bunch of seedy politics.

i see this differently. perhaps there is some political motivation on the obama part, but to me, at least, it's far more. it points to an overbearing disconnect. rick warren isn't even in the conversation. he dismisses all gay people as less then human, foul and evil creatures. it goes way beyond politics, it's a moral deficiency that can't be explained away. for him to deliver the invocation at the innaguration is not a political offense, it's dismissal. it's reducing our moral authority to exist and to live to a policy matter. it is unacceptable, it tells us clearly, beyond the politics, how mr obama percieves us out of that arena.....not very serious i'm afraid.

bringing people together is a wonderful thing, but you can't bring together people who feel superior with people who don't feel inferior and not expect fireworks. equality, not tolereance, is the name of the game. i am a transwoman and i don't seek nor will i accept tolerance or acceptance, full equality or i am at odds. until people get that there will be trouble.

i am under no illusion that my full equality will be met within my lifetime, but i will not leave a legacy of less then that voice for those who follow. love and truth, both end up in the same place...full incorporation into the human flow.

policy compromises i'll make all day long, but i will not compromise my dignity as the creature God made, and i will not sit still while others do...hear clearly mr obama, your "true colors" are shining through.

much love and hope, pj


I am sure that the straight people of the USA, being in an overwhelming majority, deserve to be heard too. Why should a spokesman of their views be sidelined? What sort of bigotry and intolerance is this that the voices of all persons holding views different than that of the GLBT community should be blocked out?


ahhh...geeee...sam. now i feel so bad about being such a bully. how could i ever have gone so far as to want to squelch the speech of such an overwhelming majority? of course i'm all for the speech of people who call me names and disparage my humanity, what's wrong with me? what caused me to sink so low as to let some little thing like that bother me? i'm so ashamed.

much love and hope, pj


This is indeed a creepy slap in the face of all the gays and lesbians who worked hard to elect Obama. What perplexed me, was that the Clintons took the greatest risks for our community way back in 1991, when Bill Clinton came to Los Angeles and our community met with him. I'm not saying he was perfect, but he was the first president EVER to mention gay and lesbian rights in speeches and in his inaugural address. Hillary Clinton was the person behind the throne who got Bill to appoint not one but two lesbians to his cabinet. (Closeted though they be).
The problem with the gay community, is that it really has no loyalty, and seems to forget the straight politicians who really did get out there and do real things for real gays. Obama also tolerated Jon Faveau, who posted a horrifying date / rapeesque picture of cardboard cutout Hillary Clinton on his MySpace page. Kind of the equivalent somewhat of posting a black person with a rope hanging from a tree. This sexist woman hating photo was no problem for Obama, he just hired the guy anyway as his chief White House speech writer.
When are we going to learn that the Obamas of the world really don't take risks, and that he actually has a lot in common with religious conservatives? He said he only believes in marriage between a man and a woman, as did most of the candidates.
Straight people don't get how offensive and anti-civil liberties all these right wing people are. Rick Warren was a terrible choice. How about T.D. Jakes at least? Still conservative and yuck, but do we need to reward Orange County types in a Democratic break-through?
And remember, the Mormon church and Prop. 8, well guess what, they also derailed the ERA, and back then NO gay men I knew of gave a damn about women's rights. So gay men sat around doing nothing in the 70s, didn't give a damn about feminism, and then guess what? The Mormon church struck back, and gay men now suffer their homophobia as well.
Whoever commented on gay people not supporting Pastor Wright has a point, although I did support him on many blogs. I didn't see a great deal of gay or lesbian commentary on that mess either.
I'd like to see gay men get outraged over the womanhatred directed toward Hillary Clinton, then I think I might listen to the woes now over Sullivan etc. Sullivan, by the way, thinks it's fine and dandy to support the sexist Catholic church, and still attend services there. Nobody seems to have real principles when it comes to lesbian rights, women's rights or gay male sense of entitlement -- "Yeah, I'm gay, but I'm just like everyone else" say these sell out conservative gays... Oh I'm ranting here, but I think you'll get my drift. I stopped counting after 100 gay men called Hillary Clinton to "b" word-- real progressive. They were Obamaites back then, when I warned them about who he really is.... a closet religious conservative.


Ah pennyjane! I had quite forgotten that as a Conservative I should feel guilty and ashamed about my religion, morals and ethics and should sit quietly while people call me, my faith and my Saviour names. I overreached myself when I stood up for a person holding similar beliefs. I know it is not done. I am ashamed of myself. I know that I hold my faith and the teachings of the Bible in high esteem and that entitles people to insult me and call me retrogressive. I know that people who sneer at my beliefs are called 'progressive'. Yes..yes..yes. How dare a hetero guy feel good about himself? I'll try to whip up some shame and guilt for holding such radical beliefs!


come on sam.....make up your own sarcasm.

it's christmas eve, just got home from another wonderful morning working at my church...rather mainstream i'd say, presbyterian...not wild eyed radicals like Jesus or anything... but i'd like to think people would think of us as somewhat progressive, though we do so love our tradition.

thing is sam, we don't have to put others down to feel the love of God, or to worship and advocate worship...for everyone...all God's children.

think about it....for while we were still sinners He went to the cross and died for us that we might be saved. all of us, sam, all of us. you may worship by whatever dogma turns you on, God speaks many languages, listen to Him...but don't impose your views on me...that's not progressive thinking today, it goes all the way back to the founding of this union. you worship your way, i'll worship mine and we'll all share equally in the blessings of this state. is that progressive or conservative? you live your way and i'll live mine...i promise i'll never try to force a sex-change on you, how about you not getting in my way when i wish to do it for myself? what's it to you if i am male or female, what's it to you who i fall in love with and want to marry? you don't have to come to the wedding. your private life is no more my business then my private life is yours. i'll stay out of yours, how about you get out of mine?

i'm an american and i'm very christian. i spent 23 years in the army defending my right to live my way...what have you done to deserve the right to impose your way on me? i take a backseat to no one when it comes to love and reverence for the christian bible. it is the basis for everything i do in life, Christ is my hope and my destiny and i make no move that might seperate me from Him. for you to insinuate you are more of a christian then the next guy is about as sick as people can get. when you are God, when you go to the cross and die, decend into hell and arise on the third day, then you may speak of who is and who is not loved by God...until's just your opinion...and frankly, not worth much.

much love and hope, pj

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