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June 18, 2009



Actually, Jesus did speak to the point on marriage (Mt 19:4-6), and quite explicitly, though in the context of divorce and adultery which are always parts of the larger conversation about marriage in Judaic thought of the time. The quotations Jesus uses from the Torah (Gn 1:27, 2:24, 5:2) are essential citations in Judaism as advocacy references for marriage.

And certainly, Jesus could not have spoken on gay issues as we know them today since such concepts/lifestyles were not part of the religiocultural fabric of the 1st century CE. We do Jesus, history (past and present), and ourselves great injustice by using the same pick-and-choose, out-of-context Biblical hyperbole that the Christian Right et al. use against us. We needn't lower ourselves to that dark place, and surely, many of us gay Christians are above that sort of infantile bantering.

This poster seems more to stir some sort of idiopathological animosity of those against Christianity by presenting inconsequential, emotive catch-phrases about Jesus being unmarried or not performing marriages. Rather than making an educated, historically-accurate statement for gay rights, same-sex marriage, and a transformation of people's hearts in our churches, this poster fails us in many ways - ways making us use up valuable time undoing invalid suppositions about Jesus instead of expending proactive energy on forward thinking and doing.

pennyjane i can understand this criticism....seems as if "undoing invalid suppositions" is a waste of time and energy to..."+++JN1034". first....i don't see how "this poster" is making you do anything. that "this poster" has chosen to spend their time making an attempt to undo certain suppositions they see as invalid commands you to do nothing. you are free to spend your time and energy in any way you see fit. a transsexual in today's culture i have found undoing invalid suppositions an intregral and absolutely necessary part of sharing understanding about what transsexualism is. there are those among us who are gifted with a more "proactive" nature and who have found many ways to put those gifts to work. i, personally, have found that my more "reactive" talents can be put to some pretty good use as well. i seem to have a way of sharing what transsexualism is from the position of explaining what it isn't...which is transvestism, fetishism, illusion and such. i have found that creating a better understanding of transsexuaism can be accomplished more effeciently from a neutral position than from where one is carrying all the baggage associated with the "invalid supposition".

so, rather than wasting my time and energy by dispelling invalid suppositions i think i'm spending them wisely, according to my own skills and i don't see where that is creating any impediment for others who are thinking more holistically and forward...there's a place for us all to contribute.

much love and hope. pj

Kittredge Cherry

Perhaps I did a disservice by referring readers to the Jesus in Love Blog for the whole story. I just posted the first part of a longer story here, and invited people who were interested to follow the link. JN1034, if you had clicked the link, you would have read that I did address Jesus’ statements on divorce and adultery.

Maybe the links aren’t working right. So for the record, here is the last part of the story:

There are no records that Jesus ever got married or performed a marriage. Christian tradition says that Jesus supported marriage because he did his first miracle at a wedding -- where he turned water into wine. As Vanden notes, “He went to weddings and got drunk, but he never performed one.”

In the Bible Jesus spoke against divorce and adultery, but he said nothing at all about marriage (or about homosexuality). Since he didn’t advocate marriage for heterosexuals, it’s interesting to consider what Jesus would think of today’s movement for same-sex marriage.

Vanden’s “Jesus Never Married” piece is also a bumper-sticker. He displays it proudly on the back of his van.

“In my lifetime I have seen amazing changes,” Vanden says. “More are yet to come! I hope I have helped!”

Stella R

PJ, JN1034 said "making us use up valuable time undoing invalid suppositions about Jesus" not just invalid suppsoitions. It's not all about you. JN1034's talking about Jesus and Christianity. You took it all so personal and only talk about yourself.


hi stella. i'm sorry you misunderstood my post. i use myself as examples when i speak, frankly because i'm what i know best. i didn't take the post personally at all, i simply disagreed with the substance of what was said.

as you quoted..."MAKING us use up valuable time....." i don't think that makes much sense. no one is making anyone else use their time in any way they don't feel worthwhile. i don't think it's the right or the privilidge of any one individual to tell others how they should use their time or how they should direct their efforts. frankly i find it somewhat insulting to have my efforts described as "a waste" or "infantile".

i'll reiterate my illustration. in my life i have found it necessary to "dispell invalid suppositions" in order to place valid suppositions into the mix. i speak from my own personal experiences because it's what i know best....but it's really about a general statement. if the invalid supposition is about Jesus, the buddah or anything else it's the same principle...i think it's not invalid to assume that learned untruths have to be unlearned in order to appreciate the truth. that's just a general statement.

i think speaking from our own personal experiences is valid...a useful tool for communication on a larger level.

i used my experience in explaining transsexualism as an example of how useful and necessary i have found the act of "undoing invalid suppositions" to direct contradiction to the invalid supposition of +++JN1034...that it's "infantile" and "uses up valuable time"....i think it a very good use of time and energy.

diagreement doesn't have to be personal, sometimes we just disagree with what someone has said.

in your post, by comparison, all we saw was a condemnation of me personally....nothing in the way of discourse or any idea.......

that's much closer to what i'd call a waste of time and actually....could be considered "infantile."

good luck....pj

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